Mr Punch. The origins of the polka are easily traceable: it has a documented history.

02-18-2006, 06:32 PM

The origins of the polka are easily traceable: it has a documented history.

The origins of Savate are frequently challenged as are the origins of most CMA and the origins of many many white western traditions, not only fighting/dancing, usually those with a beginning steeped in oral history.

The origins of breakdancing follow a rich cultural oral tradition, therefore there is no written history, making it harder to trace. Don't get me wrong mate, I think you're right in the inherent racism of a lot of people who deny African history, but it is made easier for them to do so by the fact that most African traditions are oral.

Having said that, I've never seen Eddie make a racist comment on the baord, so shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt.

As for myself, I don't see any reason to attribute Western boxing's origins to African fighting arts:

1) There is some limited evidence that the ducking and weaving came from the changes to the rules after Queensbury came in, for various reasons I won't go into now.

2) There haven't been any major African boxing champions as far as I can remember (if you can think of any please let me know). Of course a lot of boxing champs have been black and their origins were in Africa, but there's no evidence that for example Ali got any exposure to African arts before his boxing style was already well developed.

3) Western pugilism has a well-documented history through newspaper articles and commentator's social commentaries etc going back some 300 years. The developments in ducking and weaving have come much more recently, but can be traced as a progression in rules as in (1) above.

I'm not saying there's definitelt no influence but so far, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that it's definitely the case that African arts gave us boxing.

And no, I'm not dissing African nations or history and I don't think intelligence comes into it one way or the other (but BTW, do you think intelligence would be a major factor in the foundation of a) a dance style or b) a fighting style?), I just don't agree.

Mr Punch

02-18-2006, 06:36 PM

BTW, welcome to the board.

Seems you have some good opinions and knowledge of history, hope you stick around and don't find too much racism where there is none: god knows there's enough around in other places for you to find!

Mickey

02-20-2006, 03:58 PM

danmyete,

Regarding Paragraph 5: Korea and Africa.

I have been looking at Korea for some time now. There is definitely a West African connection. They possess a two sided drum that is called "Chango," that is the name of a powerful West African God. They also perform a dance with a ribbon whirling from the top of their head, Something that is done in West Africa as well. The drum I refer to is here:

http://www.africantreasures.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=DRUM0006

Strong correlations have been found between West African Gods and the Gods of Shinto. I say this because the Koreans and the Japanese are essentially the same people (it has been proven) despite the bile that they spew at each other.

Additonally, there was a time when it was fashionable to have African manserveants and Korean maidservants in China. During this time Africans in China were called "Kun Lun"

mickey

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