London, July 26, 1973

Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

päpam eväçrayed asmän

hatvaitän ätatäyinaù

tasmän närha vayaà hantuà

dhärtaräñörän svabändhavän

svajanaà hi kathaà hatvä

sukhinaù syäma mädhava

[Bg. 1.36]

Translation: "Sin will overcome us if we slay such aggressors. Therefore it is not proper for us to kill the sons of Dhåtaräñöra and our friends. What should we gain, O Kåñëa, husband of the goddess of fortune, and how could we be happy by killing our own kinsmen?"

Prabhupäda: So päpam eva. Päpam means sinful activities, and puëyam is pious. So people should consider in every activity, whether it is päpam or puëyam, whether it is virtuous or sinful activities. But the asuras, they do not know. Pravåttià ca nivåttià ca na vidur asurä janäù [Bg. 16.7]. Those who are asuras, they do not care what is sinful or what is right. "I like it; I must do it." This is asura. There is no reference to the authorities, whether the action which I am going to do, whether it is pious or impious. Because by impious activities I will be degraded. Adho gacchanti tamasaù [Bg. 14.18]. Jaghanya-guëa-våtti-sthäù. If we become addicted to sinful activities, the result will be we shall be degraded. But they do not know. Even so-called religious priests, they support killing, condone it. Killing is impious, sinful activity, but in the name of religion, killing is also going on. If someone says, "It is my religion to cut throat," will it be accepted very nice thing? Sometimes... Just like here is the war. This is also religious war. But still, discrimination. Arjuna, because he is a Vaiñëava, a Vaiñëava means devatä, demigod. Viñëu-bhakto bhaved daiva äsuras tad viparyayaù. What is the difference between deva and asura? Who is called a devata, and who is called an asura? There are two kinds of men. One class is called deva, devata. The other class is called asura. Deväsura.

So there is always fight between deva and asura. Now at the present moment, the number of asuras have increased. Formerly the number of devatäs were greater. So Arjuna is devatä because he is Viñëu-bhakta. Dvau bhüta-sargau loke ('smin) daiva äsura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. There are two classes of men within this creation. Viñëu-bhakto bhaved daivaù. Those who are devotees of Lord Viñëu, they are called devatä. Just like the demigods like Indra, Candra, Sürya, and many others. There are thirty-three krores of devatäs in the higher planetary system. They are all Viñëu-bhakta. They will abide by the orders of Viñëu and Vaiñëava. Just like Indra. He is devatä. There was fight between Hiraëyakaçipu and the Indra's party. So when Hiraëyakaçipu was defeated, naturally the... Afterward, if the other party is defeated, the victorious party makes some, so many aggression, especially aggression of women. That is still current. Innocent women, they are very much harassed after the war by the victorious party. You know, the soldiers are given freedom to rape the women. And plunder the property. So many things they have. So when Hiraëyakaçipu was defeated, all the devatäs, they did not make such aggression, but the wife of Hiraëyakaçipu—Käyadhu, I think—she was arrested by Indra and was taken. She was crying, just usual, woman. But she was being dragged by Indra. So Närada was passing. Now, he said, "What are you doing this?" "No, there is no question of harassing this woman. But I am taking her in my custody because she is pregnant and the child is begotten by asura, Hiraëyakaçipu. Therefore I shall wait for the birth of the child, and as soon as she gives birth, I will kill that child." Yes. So Närada said, "No, no. That child is not asura child. He is coming, a great devotee, mahä-bhägavata of Kåñëa." Because Närada knew that when... Not before. After all, he knew. But before also, he knew. Because they are saintly persons, they can understand that here is a child is coming who will be a great devotee of Kåñëa. So mahä-bhägavata. So "Don't try that. You don't take her to your custody. Better give her in my custody. I shall take care." So immediately he abided by the order of Närada, immediately. He released. And not only released, circumambulated the woman. So here is a mahä-bhägavata, in the womb of this woman. So let us offer our obeisances. This is Vaiñëava. As soon as understood, that there is a Vaiñëava mahä-bhägavata, in the womb of this woman, "She is to be respected, offered obeisances." This is called Vaiñëava. But the asura would not do that. Asura would not do that. That is the difference between devatä and asura. In the Bhagavad-gétä, Sixteenth Chapter, you will find the description of the asura: pravåttià ca nivåttià ca na vidur asurä janäù [Bg. 16.7]. Pravåtti. Pravåtti means what sort of activities we shall do, and what sort of activities we shall not do. The asuras, they do not know. The asuras, they do not know. Anything they do. "For my sense gratification I must do everything." Therefore they become entangled. So long they are strong in this life, they do not take care of anyone. Çästra, sädhu or guru. They do not care for anything. So that means... But the asuric civilization, the living entities become entangled because he may not care for any action, the asura, but the nature is there.

prakåteù kriyamäëäni

guëaiù karmäëi sarvaçaù

ahaìkära-vimüòhätmä

kartäham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]

Rascals, they are thinking that they are free to act anything he likes. That is not possible. So long we are in this material world, we are conditioned. Prakåteù kriyamäëäni guëaiù karmäëi. As we are associating with the particular quality of this material nature...

There are three varieties of quality. Goodness, passion and ignorance. So we have to associate with either of these qualities. Unless we are Kåñëa conscious. Unless one is engaged in devotional service, he must be influenced by these three kinds of qualities. Goodness... Somebody may be very good man, according to the estimation of the... Just like Arjuna, he is talking in the modes of goodness, considering, considering. "Although they are ätatäyinaù..." Päpam eva äçrayed asmän hatvä etän ätatäyinaù. Ätatäyinaù means aggressor. According to law, if somebody comes to attack you, or if somebody comes to kidnap your wife, these are ätatäyinaù. Or somebody comes to set fire in your house, especially they are called aggressors. So these aggressors are to be immediately killed. There is no question of nonviolence. You must kill immediately. There is no sin. Ätatäyinaù. But here, although the other party is ätatäyinaù, aggressor, still, Arjuna is considering whether they should be killed or not. That is the difference between devatä. In every action, they are calculating. But he is considering that "This kind of aggressor, because they are my kinsmen, they are my family men, whether this kind of aggressor should be killed or not?" It is common sense. Suppose your son has done something mischievous. The same thing. Same thing means to attack the father. Still, the father will consider, "Whether I shall kill my son or not?" That is natural. "If my son sets fire in the house, whether I shall kill him or not?" So Arjuna's position is like that. "Although they are ätatäyinaù, aggressor, still, because they belong to the same family, whether I shall kill them?" He is considering, päpam eva äçrayed: "If I kill this kind of aggressor, I will be attacked with sinful activities. I have to suffer the result of sinful activities." And he is explaining why. Päpam eva äçrayed asmän. "Because these are bändhavän." Sva-bändhavän dhärtaräñörän. The dhärtaräñörän means the sons of Dhåtaräñöra, Duryodhana and others. So sva-bändhavän. "They are our family members, bändhavän." Sva-janaà hi kathaà hatvä sukhinaù syäma mädhava [Bg. 1.36]. "Mädhava, my dear Mädhava, You are the husband of the goddess of fortune. So you are always very happy. Do you think I shall become happy by killing my own men? Do you think like that?" Because friend and friend talking.

So this is the position. Just see, they were ätatäyinaù, aggressor. There is no doubt about it. Because these dhärtaräñörän, the sons of Dhåtaräñöra, they insulted Draupadi. Arjuna's wife. There was betting. The wife was betting. So they defeated, they were defeated in the chess play, and the wife was taken by the other party. So Karëa took the opportunity. Because during Draupadi's svayamvara, Karëa was insulted by Draupadi. The piercing of the eyes of the fish, Karëa was greater, what is called, arrowman. So when Karëa came to touch the arrow for piercing the eyes of the fish, Draupadi objected, objected because she wanted Arjuna to become her husband. But she knew that "If Karëa comes to this combat, he will be victorious. Then I will have to go to Karëa." So she was also very intelligent daughter of kñatriya king. So Karna, nobody knew that he is kñatriya. He was supposed to be son of a carpenter. Karëa was born before Kunté's marriage. Therefore she... Karëa remained hidden, whose son. But he was kñatriya. So it was unknown. So Draupadi took this opportunity that "This competition is meant for the kñatriyas, not for the non-kñatriyas." Because he was supposed to be son of a carpenter, çüdra. So he was not given the opportunity to gain Draupadi. But if he was given the opportunity, he would have come out victorious. So now Karëa took this opportunity. When Draupadi was lost in the game, so he immediately... Karëa was Duryodhana's friend. He immediately advised, "Now she is our property. We can do whatever we like with. Arjuna has lost his wife." So he advised that "Make her naked in this assembly." To become naked in the, so many people, that is a great insult for woman. So actually, they tried to insult. Not tried, it was fact. But Kåñëa saved. You know, Draupadi's vastra-haraëa. She was tried to become naked, but these people could not make her naked. The säré was supplied by Kåñëa, one after another, one after another, heaps of säré. Then they become fed up, gave up that business, that "She cannot be made naked."

So they were actually ätatäyinaù. Because ätatäyinaù means one who comes to kidnap your wife, insults your wife. You should immediately kill. Just like Lord Rämacandra. He was so pious king, but when it so happened that his wife, Sétä, was insulted... Sétä was taken away by Rävaëa. Lord Rämacandra could marry hundreds and thousands of Sétäs. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He could create Sétä, Rädhäräëé, Lakñmé. They are the pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot have a material wife or material companion. Kåñëa's Rädhäräëé or Lord Rämacandra's Sétädevé, Näräyaëa's Lakñmédevé, they are pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Rädhä-kåñëa-praëaya-våkitir ählädiné-çaktir asmät. Ählädiné-çakti. Kåñëa, God, has got many potencies. One of the potencies is called ählädiné-çakti, pleasure potency. So Kåñëa's consort, Lord Rämacandra's consort, they are pleasure potency, exhibited. So to show the example, Lord Rämacandra, because Sétä was kidnapped, Sétä was insulted, or Rämacandra was insulted, the retaliation was Lord Rämacandra killed not only Rävaëa, but the whole dynasty, finished. Only for one woman. He could create so many. No. Because ätatäyinaù, aggressed over. Just to teach people that anyone, if he is aggressor, he must be killed. This is the position.

But Arjuna is considering whether it will be pious or impious. This is devatä. In every action, they will consider, "What I am going to do, whether it is pious or impious." That is devatä. "If it is pious, then it will elevate me. And if it is impious, then it will degrade me." Nobody wants degradation. The human life should be especially meant for elevation, not for degradation. You have come to this human form of life from the lower status of life. Jalajä nava-lakñäëi sthavarä lakña-viàçati kåmayo rudra-saìkhyakäù. Through so many status of life: the aquatics, the trees, the plants, the insects, the reptiles, the birds, the beasts. In this way... Bahünäà janmanäm ante. Bahünäà sambhavante [Bg. 7.19]. This human form of life is gotten, we have received, after many, many births. These people, they do not know. It is very rare. Therefore Narottama däsa Öhäkura sings, manuñya janama päiya, rädhä-kåñëa nä bhajiyä, jäniyä suniyä viña khäinu. Hari hari viphale janama goiìu. He is lamenting, "My dear Kåñëa, I am so unfortunate. I got this human form of life. It was meant for developing Kåñëa consciousness. But I have wasted my time otherwise. So how it is so? Jäniyä suniyä viña khäinu. Knowingly I have taken poison. Knowingly." Labdhvä sudurlabhaà idam bahu-sambhavante, manuñyam artha-dam [SB 11.9.29]. These people, they do not know. Because they are asuras, they do not know what to do in this human form of life and what not to do. They are killing animals without any hesitation. They do not know these rascals. And still they are spiritual leaders. How horrible condition is this, in this Kali-yuga. Just imagine. Without any restriction, without any hindrance, they are committing sinful life. They do not know, next life, all this boastfulness, pride, will be finished. He will have to accept another body, which will be offered by the material nature. You cannot say that "I will not accept this body; I want this body." No. Nature is not under your dictation. You have to abide by the dictation of nature. Prakåteù kriyamäëäni. This verse of Bhagavad-gétä is very important.

prakåteù kriyamäëäni

guëaiù karmäëi sarvaçaù

ahaìkära-vimüòhätmä

kartäham iti manyate

[Bg. 3.27]

Ahäìkära, by false ego. The asuras, they think, "I am independent. I can do whatever I like." No. You cannot do so. If you do so, then you will be punished.

daivé hy eñä guëamayé

mama mäyä duratyayä

mäm eva prapadyante

mäyäm etän taranti

[Bg. 7.14]

For every little action, you are responsible. It is being noted by the material nature. And you will be forced to accept a kind of body for suffering. In so many types of bodies. Therefore Arjuna, being devatä, he is considering that "Although they are ätatäyinaù, at the same time, they are family men. Whether it is good to kill family?" He is asking Kåñëa. Kåñëa is there. He is considering, he is consulting with Kåñëa that "Do you think that killing this kind of aggressor, I will be benefitted or not?" Therefore in the last line he said, sva-janaà hi kathaà hatvä sukhinaù syäma mädhava: [Bg. 1.36] "My dear Kåñëa, do you think by killing my family men, my relatives, shall I be happy? You are Mädhava. You are always happy because You are husband of goddess of fortune. But do you think I shall be happy in this way?" This is consultation.

So this is the proof of Arjuna's character, a devotee's character. A devotee is always devatä, demigod. So one who is devotee, one who is Kåñëa conscious, sarvair guëais tatra samäsate suräù [SB 5.18.12]. Sura means devatä. All the good qualities of devatä. A devotee of Kåñëa will never accept that killing is very good. No. "For the satisfaction of my tongue, I shall kill so many animals." A devotee will never accept. Ahiàça. Ahiàça. That is the third quality. Amänitvam adambhitvaà ahiàçä kñäntir ärjavam [Bg. 13.8]. These are... Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gétä. Amänitvam. Amänitvam means to accept this body as "I am." This is amänitvam, er, not to accept. That is amänitvam. Everyone is proud that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Englishman." So it is boastful, very proud of this body. So knowledge means "I am not this body. I am not this body." That is amänitvam. Adambhitvam. As soon as we become aware that "I am not this body," then my false pride immediately goes. Amänitvam adambhitvam ahiàçä. Then ahiàçä, nonviolence. Ärjavam, simplicity. There are eighteen qualifications of the demigods. So one who becomes a devotee of Kåñëa, Kåñëa conscious, these, all these good qualities develop. So here is the proof, that Arjuna, because he is a devotee of Kåñëa, he is considering, "Whether I shall kill them or not?" Ahiàsä. It is consideration, not that it is final settlement.

So people are trying to elevate the status of the society by so many things. But they do not know the secret. The secret is that if one is trained only to become a devotee of Kåñëa, all good qualities automatically will be visible in his person. There is no need of separate endeavor, how to make a man honest, how to make a man religious, how to make a man high-thinking, simple living. These are good... Çamo damas, titikña ärjavaà jïänaà vijïänam ästikyam [Bg. 18.42]. All these qualities immediately develop. Because a living entity, spirit soul, he is part and parcel of Kåñëa. Mamaiväàço jévaù [Bg. 15.7]. Kåñëa says all this. Ahaà béja-pradaù pitä [Bg. 14.4]. "They have come to this material world. I am the seed-giving father. They wanted to enjoy. So I have given them chance. But actually I am the father. The material nature is the mother." Just like we have got experience, the father injects the living entity in the womb of the mother. And the mother, by her blood, develops the body of the child. Similarly, all these living entities, 8,400,000 species, the... Béjo 'haà sarva-bhütänäm [Bg 7.10]. The father is Kåñëa. He has given the seed in the womb of this material nature. And the material nature has given the body. Somebody has got the body of fish, somebody has got the body of tree, plant, somebody has got insect, reptile, somebody bird, sometimes beasts, somebody human being, somebody demigod. But all these materials have been supplied by the mother. It is very easy to understand. Just like the child grows, the mother supplies the bodily ingredients. Caitanya Mahäprabhu therefore... This is very scientific. When He took sannyäsa and the mother came... Advaita Prabhu arranged to see for the last time her son. Because a sannyäsé is no more coming home. So at that time, mother became overwhelmed: "Such beautiful body. He has nice hair. Now it is shaven." So she became very much overwhelmed and was crying. So Caitanya Mahäprabhu immediately fell down on her lotus feet and He said, "My dear mother, this body is yours. My dear mother, this body is yours. This body should have been engaged for your service, but some way or other, I mistake, I have taken this sannyäsé. Kindly excuse Me." Caitanya Mahäprabhu said that "This body belongs to you. This is your body." Every son should think like that. This is Vedic culture. Actually, the body supplied, mother. From the very beginning, after sex... These are all described in the Bhägavata. The two secretions become emulsified, and a body is formed just like a pea, and gradually develops. The ingredients, the energy is supplied by the mother. So the same thing. The whole creation, the body is supplied by material nature, mother. Therefore she is called "mother." Material nature is called "mother." Mother Durgä. Såñöi-sthiti-pralaya-sädhana-çaktir eka. The material nature..., and her name is Durgä.

Såñöi-sthiti-pralaya-sädhana-çaktir ekä

chäyeva yasya bhuvanäni vibharti durgä

icchänurüpam api yasya ca ceñöate sa

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajämi.

[Bs. 5.44]

This is description of Durgä. So Kåñëa also says. So we should not think like that, that animals or trees or birds and beasts, they are other than ourself. They are our brothers. Because the seed-giving father is Kåñëa, and the mother is material nature. So we have got the same father and same mother. So if we have got the same father and mother, they are all our brothers.

So unless one is advanced in spiritual consciousness, how he can think of universal brotherhood? This is nonsense. There is no possibility. The so-called universal brotherhood is possible when he is Kåñëa conscious, when one knows that Kåñëa is the common father of everyone. The father will not tolerate. Suppose father has got ten sons. Out of them one or two sons are useless. So those who are very capable sons, if they say to the father, "My dear father, these two sons of yours, they are useless. So let us cut their throat and eat." So father will say, "Yes, you do that"? No. Father will never say. The father will say, "Let them be useless, but let them live at my cost. Why...? You have no right to infringe on their rights." This is common sense. But these rascals, they think that animals are to be killed for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being. No sense. No sense. And still they are passing on as religious heads. Such type of cheating religion is completely kicked out from this Bhägavata religion. Dharmaù projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsaräëäà västavaù vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. It is meant for, this Bhägavat-dharma. Kåñëa consciousness movement is meant for the paramo nirmatsaräëäà those who are not envious. How they can be envious? Paramahaàsa, one who has understood what is this creation, who is the creator, what are these living entities, one who has got this knowledge, he is called paramahaàsa. So how a paramahaàsa can be envious of others? Therefore it is said paramo nirmatsaräëäm [SB 1.1.2]. Matsaratä. Matsaratä means envious. So without becoming Vaiñëava, without becoming a devotee of Kåñëa, you do not think that anyone is a human being. He is simply animal.

Thank you very much. Hare Kåñëa. (end)

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